3D,,,or NOT 3D, ,,,that is the question!!

[elkmaster01]

I've seen some folks say that the term 3D is misrepresented a lot. So,,,what is considered '3D' flying? What constitutes 'sport flying'?

I thought I was doing 3D,,,maybe not. I fly loops,,flips,,rolls,,,inverted FFF,,,,,outside loops,,,,VERY ugly piro-flips, ,,,tic/tocs and rainbows(verticle and lateral). I can auto-rotate too.

What's the general take on this?

Thanks!

Randy

[MikeK1981]

I would call flips, rolls, FFF inverted, and the other 'tricks' you mentioned 3D flying.  Simply because you have to have a 6ch "3D" capable helicopter to do those things.  I guess anything that these 6ch helis are capable of that lesser helis aren't is 3D, IMO, as far as tricks go anyway. 

[shizack]

Literally, 3D could mean simply hovering.  You are controlling the heli's position using all dimensions we can move through without using special powers or wacky "Doc Brown"-ish devices.

But colloquially, 3D doesn't usually apply to flips and rolls.  That's in the realm of "aerobatic" flying.  I think it was MISTER Youngblood  who said it was the simultaneous coordination of at least three control axes during a maneuver.

Wouldn't simply hovering apply here?  Let go of any transmitter stick and you will be out of control, to a degree.

Where does "3D" kick in?  Who knows?  I guess it's when you get all your birds and parts from your sponsor and it becomes free to fly whenever and however.

[shizack]

I would call flips, rolls, FFF inverted, and the other 'tricks' you mentioned 3D flying.  Simply because you have to have a 6ch "3D" capable helicopter to do those things.  I guess anything that these 6ch helis are capable of that lesser helis aren't is 3D, IMO, as far as tricks go anyway. 

Ehhh...maybe.  but I've seen Chinese el cheapo coaxials advertised as "3D" helicopters.

I wouldn't call a stall turn 3D if a pro was around, but "lesser" helis can't do them properly.  I would be inclined to call inverted flight "3D" flying, but I'm sure that would be poo-pooed as well.

[dditch66]

I first learned to fly back when most helis would not even do inverted.  They used to call it "flip flops".

I 'personally DON"T like the term 3D. I also don't like it when a person does a flip and says they do 3D.

That's my preference I say. But I''m not gonna bust their chops over it, I'll just ask them what they mean by 3D or what manuevers they can do. 

I much prefer to list out manuevers when I ask what they can do or how they are flying.  Quite often, people will say, can the heli do 3d?  That's way too broad.
Out of the box, I could do inverted hovering and forward flight with the G2. It was not good at it, but it did it. 
Out of the box, the Blueray PE would do flips pretty easy, hover inverted really nice and such, but then people would say, what do I need to upgrade to do 3d? 

So I say, don't ask questions like : can the heli do 3D. Instead list the manuever you are asking about.  Often, the heli can do it, it's the pilot who can't.  Sometimes of course, a heli is underpowerd or has such a slow cyclic response, that it takes someone who's experianced to do the manuever.  Even a basic flip is much easier if the cyclic response is fast. 

Elk my friend, More power to ya, I have not even been able to do a piro flip on the sim yet.    Maybe after the spring, I'll string one together 

[elkmaster01]

David,,,the piro flip is a perfect example of what a Helicommand can do for you,,,,a learning aide. I learned piro-flips on the simulator. But I would never have attempted one without the aide of the Helicommand. And it DID save my heli(600) a couple times. But I have progressed to doing single piro-flips on my 500 with no stabilization system. In the spirit of full disclosure,,,,,my piro-flips are UGLY UGLY UGLY!!!! The collective management required is so touchy,,it takes a lot of altitude and a lot of room. I'm taking it in steps,,,,,do a half-flip and maintain altitude keeping the tail at a constant rate.

Back to the 3D issue,,,here's how I see it; 3D is nothing more than acrobatics. And when talking helis,,,inverted is the 3D standard. Anytime you are doing 'acrobatics',,flying beyond normal flight characturistics,,,you are doing 3D. The way I see it,,,flips,,rolls and loops are 3D flying,,,inverted hovers are 3D flying. If they aren't 3D,,then the line between normal and 3D would be so subjective,,no-one would be able to agree on it! I agree the term 3D is too vague,,,"acro" would better describe it.

Interesting thread,,,,I thought!!

Thx!!

[MikeK1981]

+1 on that elk!  I think anything involving inverted or flipping of any kind is beyond regular sport flying, therefore (to me anyway), is 3D flying.  Otherwise you would need too many classifications.  Sport, Super Sport, Stunt, Acrobatic, 3D, PRO...  it would just be too confusing and pointless LOL!

[mckrackin]

I've always considered flips loops and rolls as a mild 3D but I think real 3D flying requires at least three directions of control like piro flips,tumbling circiuts etc.....

[dditch66]

Interesting thing sometimes is that people will say you need some set up for 3D. Or, you need this much pitch for 3D.  I regularly flip to fly or hover inverted with just 9 degrees pitch on the top end Even on a 450 with flybar weights where the cyclic rates are slow.  More pitch and more cyclic is probably "safer" cause you can get out of trouble quicker but it does not look as smooth.  I actually think a single back flip is probably easier than a loop or axial roll. Maybe cause I see people do them not long after they get into forward flight.  A guy at a nearby RC field who started in the spring was there talking to a heli prospect a couple weeks ago and he said "I have alot of pitch cause I do 3D".  The guy does not hover inverted, nose in, nor has done a loop or roll yet...... He seems infactuated on his flips to the point that he does 4-10 of them then buzzes around as fast as he can almost out of contro. His flips with his upgraded Blade 400 is about as sloppy as it gets too...   Now, I don't care if you do figure 8's for the rest of your life, but I prefer people not to use "3D" lightly.

"Mild 3D", I like that term McK.  Maybe there should always be an adjative attached to the front....

Huhhhh,,, what's going on with karma now? Wow, this is wacky.....

[MikeK1981]

They are going to a system like the savage forum that I go on has.  You can give good karma when people earn it but you can't take it away anymore.

[Red87]

ive thought the "3D flying" thing was idiotic from the first time i heard it, and i always will. (the term, not the actual flying). 3D is a very well defined concept, it is 3 dimensions. its how damn near everything in the real world exists. a 2 channel heli flies in 3D, even if you're only controlling 2 D's. in my opinion, the term acrobatic flying is excellent.

[Serendipity]

AMA.....Academy of Model Aeronautics.......refers to "3d-trick" heli flight as acrobatic flight....the same terminology used in plane flight.........term 3d not used by plank flyer's.....

Although loosly applied, "the ability to do more than standard vertical/horizontal flight, acrobatic maneuver's are generally applied to barrel roles, Immelmann maneuver's, inverted, 4 point roll, snap roll, stalls, cuban 8, Lomcevak and rolling circles" ect..........

The advent of RC heli's applied terms like, lawnmower, piro's, hurricanes, funnels, tornado's, tail hopping, punch-ups ect........which RC planks cannot do for all the obvious reasons.......If your doing heli cuban 8's, 4 point roll's and Lomcevak maneuver's (which are common place with heli's).......your doing 3d..........

[mckrackin]

AMA.....Academy of Model Aeronautics.......refers to "3d-trick" heli flight as acrobatic flight....the same terminology used in plane flight.........term 3d not used by plank flyer's.....

Although loosly applied, "the ability to do more than standard vertical/horizontal flight, acrobatic maneuver's are generally applied to barrel roles, Immelmann maneuver's, inverted, 4 point roll, snap roll, stalls, cuban 8, Lomcevak and rolling circles" ect..........

The advent of RC heli's applied terms like, lawnmower, piro's, hurricanes, funnels, tornado's, tail hopping, punch-ups ect........which RC planks cannot do for all the obvious reasons.......If your doing heli cuban 8's, 4 point roll's and Lomcevak maneuver's (which are common place with heli's).......your doing 3d..........

Nice cut and paste but I think he's looking for opinions and not AMA quotes.

[Serendipity]

Not a cut and paste.....lol...........just the terminology you hear all the time at the clubs...........

The original post ask the question "what is considered 3d flying"..........did I miss something.........?

Maybe you're the only one that knows the difference........

Thanks for the insight........ I look forward to more constructive criticism.......very helpful........

[mckrackin]

I'm just bored and playing witcha
Rainy cold day today.

I'm just saying that many people look at 3D differently.
In my opinion,if you do 100 flips and rolls and stay inverted for 5 minutes straight in one flight,that is not enough to be called 3D.

There has to be some serious stirring of the sticks to be called 3D.
You need to be in control of the helis direction of travel in a bunch of different orientations.